Tuning uz dyno

[marracc]

Pozdrav,
neznam da li ima vec tema o ovome, ako nema, covjek tjunira Yamahu aerox uz dynometar, znaci sve se vidi kakav je koji spuh, kakv je koji kit, kako rolice utjecu na ponasanje skutera, jako zanimljivo, jer se vide rezultati na papiru odmah. Svako ko razumije osnovni engleski ce se snac!
Ako modovi dozvole, ovo bi bio super sticky, jer stvarno ima puno odgovora kaj ljude muci na njihovim skuterima!

Ja sam izvukao dijagrame za one kojima se neda citata, tko zeli vise, neka pogleda na linkove o cemu se radi, ima puno informacija za onoga koga zanimaju takve stvari preporucio bih im da procitaju sve u linkovima!!

1. Utjecaj mase rolica:
http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/moped-tuning--rollers



2. cilindri sa LeoVince ZX
http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/moped-tuning-with-a-dyno



3. usporedba fergazera
This is a blog to show how restrictive the standard 12mm carb is as fitted to a mildly tuned Yamaha Aerox 50cc moped, and subsequently explain why standard Aerox's sometimes struggle to pull away after a powerpipe has been fitted

The following dyno graph is for Yamaha Aerox which was standard apart from a PM Tuning 360 exhaust, Polini 70cc sport cylinder big bore kit, and gear up kit.

http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/yamaha-aerox-carb-comparison



We can see this starting to happen if we look at the graph above at point A. You can see that the green graph for the standard carb is consistently almost exactly 1hp lower than the 17.5 and 19mm carbs at all speeds *except* below 25mph. Below 25mph the power is very significantly down on the standard carb, at 10mph the 17.5mm carb is allowing the engine to develop a massive 70% increase in power of the standard carb which is completely out of proportion with the 1hp (approx 12%) increase seen at higher speeds but why is this ?

The answer is that it's mostly due to the fact that the original Aerox moped variator is particularly poor when used with anything other than a bog standard Aerox.

Usporedba auspuha:
If we look at this graph here which is for a 50cc standard cylinder...



and look at the graph for the standard Aerox exhaust you'll see that at anything below 6800rpm the standard exhaust makes more power than a Leo Vince ZX, TT, and Stage6 Pro rep, or indeed any other half decent sports powerpipe which has a high (but narrow) powerband.
Although ideally the variator would allow the engine to rev straight to peak power whenever you throttle, the standard aerox variator tends to always engage progressively meaning that it requires a fair amount of power to initially get it there. On the high performing pipes, especially in combination with a worn standard Aerox variator this progressive application means that due to the pipe developing lower power than a standard pipe at low revs it sometimes simply can't pull through to get to the higher revs

Oy Mate, what's the best exhaust?


We get asked this everyday, so this afternoon we ran up some different scooter exhausts to compare.
The bike used was a completely standard 50cc Yamaha Aerox. It's important to note that these results are only relevant to standard 50cc. If the bike was further modified e.g. different cylinder kit etc. pipes that appear poor in this test could come into their own and vice versa.
We'll repeat the test at some point with different cylinder kits fitted.
Feel free to skip down to the results if you're not interested in the technicals !
The Technicals...

The pipes chosen for the test are popular budget pipes, more expensive exhaust pipes are designed to work with more highly tuned bikes and tend to work poorly with standard 50cc kits. For example the PM Tuning 360 and Yasuni R exhaust pipes don't perform brilliantly in this test because they're designed to work with much higher revving cylinder kits.


The first graph contains all the pipes tested for direct comparison. For the tests we've removed the variator and used fixed gearing to get a proper power curve for each exhaust so you can see exactly what power the pipe makes at different rpms.
The pipe which made the most peak power was the Leo Vince ZX and (suprisingly) the Leo Vince TT with the Stage 6 Pro Rep very close behind.

Of course things are never this simple and the pipe that develops the highest peak power isn't necessarily the pipe which makes the fastest bike.
Take the Leo Vince TT for example. You can see from the graph that it makes a very respectable 7.5hp at 8,800rpm. This means that if you play with the roller weights until the bike runs at 8,800rpm (a good variator will hold it there steadily) you'll have 7.5hp available whenever you mash the throttle and at whatever speed you're going. None of the other pipes can better this...
However once you reach a certain speed (approx 30mph on a standard bike) the variator has moved all the way out and will no longer be able to hold the revs at 8,800. This means that the only way the bike can now go faster is for the revs to increase.
You'll notice on the budget pipes (e.g. the TT and the Endy pipe that the power they produce drops off very quickly at higher revs.

If we look for example at 9500rpms we can see that the power for the TT and Endy pipe has dropped off to around 6hp already whilst the Leo Vince ZX and Stage 6 Pro Rep are producing over 7hp at this rpm. Because this rpm would represent a road speed of approx 35-38mph this extra 1hp can make the bike substantially quicker. 1hp might not make a huge difference when accelerating from 10mph to 15mph but accelerating from 35 to 40mph this difference is definitely noticeable and because of this the higher revving pipes are significantly quicker in the real world when fitted to an otherwise standard engine. These also tend to be the pipes that work well if you later upgrade to a 70cc kit which is normally designed to run at slightly higher revs than standard.

It's worth noting though that the lower revving pipes can be easier to setup. Take the Yasuni Z for example, it makes more than 5hp all the way from 7000rpm to almost 10,200rpm, a range of over 3000rpm. The Leo Vince makes over 5hp only over a range of 2000rpm. This means that the Yasuni Z, although being a lower performing pipe will be very tolerant and easy to set it up.
Even if you get the rollers wrong and the variator is worn (can't hold the revs constant) it will still perform well as it's powerband is so wide.


REZULTATE pogledajte na:
http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/stage-6-pro-replica-exhaust-triumphs-exhaust-shootout

4. Opcenito o Dyno tuningu
http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/moped-tuning

5. sve o podesavanju smjese, diznama i kako utjecu svi parametri
http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/introduction-to-moped-jetting



EDIT:
malo sam copy pasto neke stvari, ali ljudi, nebudite lijeni, procitajte i bit ce vam sve jasno, neda mi se cijeli tekst copy pastat!

[Miki-speedy]

pola toga nema logike,pogledajte samo predzadnji grafikon

[marracc]

pola toga nema logike,pogledajte samo predzadnji grafikon

to je bez kita, 50 ccm serijala sa 12 mm karbom. neznam, covjek je to testirao na dynu, bolje od ovoga nemozes znat.
meni je logicno, vidis da yasuni R i Z drze konjazu na 10500 rpm-a dok je peek kod LeoVincia na 8500 i 9500, sto se vidi da je puno veci raspon snage kod Yasunia, kako ljudi na forumu i kazu, daje najjaci spuh

[marracc]

lijepo se vidi da ako imas serijalu sa ZX-om, da bi trebao stavit rolice da se skut vrti oko 9500 rpm-a, da daje najvecu snagu na tim okretajima, i kit i cilindar, i vidis kako je strma linija kod obicnog cilindra, znaci +-500 rpm znaci veliki pad performnsa, dok kod drugih cilindara imas veci raspon okretaja za istu konjazu, recimo Stage 6 sport pro drzi konjazu od 9000 do 10500 cca

[Gelipterina]

Procitao sam sve s te stranice, i imaju jako kvalitetne textove. Ovo sa auspusima, to je kao sto je receno na serijali. Na kraju tog texta kazu kako su neki auspusi, koji su se pokazali losijima na ovom testu, iznenadili kad su ih stavili na 70ccm kit, ali da ce to stavit u drugi test. Medjutim, cekam ga vec mjesecima i nista. Ali pretpostavljam da se radi o Yasuni R-u.

"The Yasuni R was more interesting and curiously was able to develop more hp than any other bikes at 11,000rpm but even so for such an expensive pipe it is easily outperformed by the ZX and Stage6 pipes. In fairness we know this pipe works extremely well on higher power cylinders right up to MHR rep/ Corsa/ Stage 6 70cc Race which are too highly tuned for pipes like the Leo Vince ZX to work well on."

[Miki-speedy]

Procitao sam sve s te stranice, i imaju jako kvalitetne textove. Ovo sa auspusima, to je kao sto je receno na serijali. Na kraju tog texta kazu kako su neki auspusi, koji su se pokazali losijima na ovom testu, iznenadili kad su ih stavili na 70ccm kit, ali da ce to stavit u drugi test. Medjutim, cekam ga vec mjesecima i nista. Ali pretpostavljam da se radi o Yasuni R-u.

"The Yasuni R was more interesting and curiously was able to develop more hp than any other bikes at 11,000rpm but even so for such an expensive pipe it is easily outperformed by the ZX and Stage6 pipes. In fairness we know this pipe works extremely well on higher power cylinders right up to MHR rep/ Corsa/ Stage 6 70cc Race which are too highly tuned for pipes like the Leo Vince ZX to work well on."

S6 race? misle na s6 racing kit,ako da..mogu ti rec text je kvalitetan da proliv dobijes koliko sranja ima

[runner_sp180]

S6 race? misle na s6 racing kit,ako da..mogu ti rec text je kvalitetan da proliv dobijes koliko sranja ima

ništa ljudi evo znači dyno je netočan, ako želite stručne savjete pitajte lika i riješit će vam to, ovo gore ništa nema smisla

[marracc]

ništa ljudi evo znači dyno je netočan, ako želite stručne savjete pitajte lika i riješit će vam to, ovo gore ništa nema smisla

sve je to ne mjestu, tocno tak kako treba biti... za detalje, procitajte tekstove, ali bolje od ovih inforamcija se trenutno nemoze nigdje naci, tako da...
jedino kaj moze biti krivo je da covjek laze, ali onda, cemu to sve i ta zajebancija, tako da, sve je to tak kako vidite, barem informativno ako za nista drugo. precizniji podaci nemogu biti nego preko dynometra. nije neka nauka procitat grafove, sve se lijepo vidi na njima!
 

[Gelipterina]

Slazem se, meni ovi dyno testovi imaju vise smisla nego svi koje sam do sad vidio, testiraju smisleno, da opterete skuter, kao da ima uzbrdicu, opterete mu pogon, a ne one gluposti sa blokiranim variomatom

[3alfa3]

Slazem se, meni ovi dyno testovi imaju vise smisla nego svi koje sam do sad vidio, testiraju smisleno, da opterete skuter, kao da ima uzbrdicu, opterete mu pogon, a ne one gluposti sa blokiranim variomatom

Zasto bi test sa blokiranim variomatom bio los? Pa tako najbolje vidis na kojim okretajima je snaga mashien najveca, a da se prijenos ne petlja u cijelu pricu.
Al ovi grafovi snage na durgoj slici) su odprilike ono sto oduvijek govorim (snaga je najcesce na 9200, a ne na 7500 ili slicne nebuloze)

[animatrix]

ma treba i tekst citati ne ko mujo gledati slike i srat kako nevalja. drago mi je da je netko istestirao sve moguce varijante jer me je to i zanimalo, i utjecaj karba, i razlike u tajminzima cilindra i ovisnost vrsne snage o rasponu itd..

[Gelipterina]

Zasto bi test sa blokiranim variomatom bio los? Pa tako najbolje vidis na kojim okretajima je snaga mashien najveca, a da se prijenos ne petlja u cijelu pricu.
Al ovi grafovi snage na durgoj slici) su odprilike ono sto oduvijek govorim (snaga je najcesce na 9200, a ne na 7500 ili slicne nebuloze)

Ako rade tako da blokira variomat, na nacin da je prijenos fixan, tj. mjeri se motoru snaga  sa fixnim prijenosom na zadnjem kotacu, kao da ima lanac, onda da, neki samo nabace serijsku ili sl. blokadu, i onda mjere na 50km/h, onda je slika skroz iskrivljena. Ovi imaju dyno koji uz to moze simulirat stvarne uvjete, poput otpora zraka, atmosferskih promjena...zakace lambda sondu na ispuh, pa gledaju da dizna bude idealna. Ipak, svjecica, je prilicno neprecizan i odokativan pokazatelj.

˝for example when moped tuning you want to see the effect of changing the ignition timing on power or torque at different engine speeds. An inertia dyno can only measure power whilst the drum is accelerating so you would do a full run which sweeps through the rpm you're interested in and read the graph to get a reading and keep repeating with different settings. With the load cell you just set the drum to hold the engine at say 7000rpms. No matter how hard you throttle or how powerful the bike, the magnets will hold the drum at the speed which will keep the engine at 7000rpms. It will continuously read a 'live' hp reading at this steady rpm calculated by how big the load the magnets have to apply to hold the revs steady. You can then hold the throttle fully open and adjust the timing whilst observing the effect on power, or then repeat at different throttle positions or different rpms and see instant live comparison readings.˝

PRIJEVOD:
Kao na primjer kad tunirate skuter, želite li vidjeli učinak pomaka paljenja na snagu ili okretni moment na različitim brzinama vrtnje motora.Inercijski Dyno samo može mjeriti snagu dok bubanj ubrzava, pa bi imali pun gas, kojim bi samo prohujali kroz tražene okretaje, da  očitali graf  i ponavljali testiranja s različitim postavkama. Uz opterećenu ćeliju (load drum) samo postavite bubanj da drži motor na recimo 7000rpms. Bez obzira kako dali gasa ili koliko je moćan skuter, magneti će držati bubanj pri brzini pri kojoj će držati motor na 7000rpms. Kontinuirano će očitavati 'live' hp očitanje kalkulirajući kolikom snagom elektromagneti trebaju pružati otpor, kako bi ti okretaji bili isti. Pritom možete držati pun gas i potpuno prilagoditi vrijeme paljenja pritom gledajući učinak na snagu, ili ponoviti na različitim spektrima gasa ili na različitim okretajima motora i vidjeti trenutne Usporedba očitanja.